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Home > Gnostics > Asclepius 21-29 Excerpt from the Perfect Discourse (Asclepius 21-29) At a Glance Treatise Genre: (5/5) ***** Reliability of Dating: (5/5) ***** Length of Text: Greek Original Language: Ancient Translations: Modern Translations: Estimated Range of Dating: 250-300 A.D. Chronological List of Early Christian Writings Discuss this text on the Early Writings forum. Text Excerpt from the Perfect Discourse Offsite Links French Translation Claremont Coptic Encyclopedia: Asclepius 21-29 The facsimile edition of the Nag Hammadi Codices The Nag Hammadi Library in English: Asclepius 21-29 Hermetica: The Greek Corpus Hermeticum and the Latin Asclepius in a New English Translation Mercer Dictionary of the Bible: Asclepius Nag Hammadi Bibliography: Asclepius 21-29 Books Bentley Layton, The Gnostic Scriptures: A New Translation With Annotations and Introductions (Doubleday 1987) Marvin Meyer, ed., The Nag Hammadi Scriptures (HarperOne 2009) Birger A.

Pearson, Ancient Gnosticism: Traditions And Literature (Fortress Press 2007) Recommended Books for the Study of Early Christian Writings Information on Excerpt from the Perfect Discourse Jean-Pierre Mah writes (The Nag Hammadi Scriptures, pp. 425-426): The eighth tractate of Nag Hammadi Codex VI derives from a teaching of Hermes Trismegistus to his main disciples Asclepius, Tat, and Ammon (72,30). Only small fragments of the Greek original, whose title was Perfect Discourse, have been preserved. The Latin Asclepius, sometimes attributed to Apuleius, provides us with a complete version of the work. However, a comparison of all the extant evidence proves that the Coptic is a fairly accurate translation from the Greek, whereas the Latin is a rather free adaptation.

The Coptic Excerpt from the Perfect Discourse contains the central elements of the dialogue (Asclepius 21-29), with a vibrant eulogy to Egypt. More than any other Hermetic writing, this text raises the question of the links between Alexandrian culture and old Egyptian literature and civilization. We cannot fully explain the prediction of Tismegistus concerning Egypt and its gods by simply looking for hints in the historical events of the third century CE. In fact, the text revives a literary genre that appeared as early as the first intermediate period (2190-2070 BCE). The Lamentations of Ipou-our, from that period, is not exactly a prediction. It deplores the present misfortune of Egypt and recalls the happiness of the old days.

It concludes by describing an appeasement, which is less a prophecy than a wish. Nevertheless, its evocation of foreign invasions, slaughters, inversion of moral values, and exaltation of traditional piety are rather close to our Hermetic oracle. Later on, about 2000 BCE, Neferty's Prediction pretends to foretell to Snefru, the father of Kheops, the disturbances of the first intermediate period and the successful reign of Amenemhat I. As in the Perfect Discourse, the text has two parts: it anticipates a catastrophe and the gradual restoration of order. Through foreign invasions, human disorder brings about cosmic disasters. The Demotic Chronicle of the third century BCE comments upon several oracles concerning the last Egyptian pharaohs as well as Persian and Macedonian invaders.

Just like the Hermetic writer of the Perfect Discourse (74,7-11), the chronicler refers to astral necessity to account for the rebirth of Egypt after foreign domination. Shortly after the victorious campaigns of Ptolemy III (246-231 BCE), who had brought back to Egypt the statues of the gods captured by the Persians, the Oracle of the Lamb offers what is intended as a prediction of these events to King Bocchoris (722-716 BCE). Likewise, in the Perfect Discourse, Hermes foretells to his disciples (75,27-33) the retreat of the gods and the foundation of the Alexandrian shrines. About 130 BCE, the Greek Oracle of the Potter - a cryptic name of Khnum, the ancestral god of the Hermetic Good Genius - deals with the same themes as Trismegistus: withdrawal of the gods, foreign wars, omnipresence of death, return of Egypt to the desert, horrible crimes, perversion of values, cosmic perturbations, and final restoration of order.

Just as in the Oracle of the Potter, the prediction of Trismegistus in the Perfect Discourse contains an invocation to Egypt (70,36) and an allusion to "a city that is in a corner of Egypt" (75,28-29), which is sure to be Alexandria. However, when the Hermetic dialogue was written in the late third century, Egypt had been open to foreign cultural influences for several centuries. Thus, although our text is quite different from Jewish apocalyptic, the mention of "wicked angels" leading men into evil deeds (73,5-12) may well be an echo of the book of Enoch. Moreover, the Hermetic author of the Perfect Discourse revisits the Egyptian myth of successive births of the cosmos in the light of Greek physics and philosophy.

The harmonious functioning of the universe demands a balanced sharing of the four elements. Whenever some disorder brings about the overabundance of fire or water, human beings become victims either of drought or flood. In spit of the Nile's protection, Egypt undergoes such calamities (73,32) until the demiurge restores his previous creation (74,1). Furthermore, the judgment of the soul and its journey in the underworld are well known in pharaonic literature. But Trismegistus portrays aerial hells that are nothing like the Egyptian underworld. He adapts Plato's myths of the great beyond (Gorgias 524d; Phaedo 107d; Republic X, 614a) to cosmological ideas of his time concerning the heavenly spheres and the various obstacles that may thwart the ascent of the soul toward the uppermost dwellings of blessedness.

Thus, despite authentic and quite distinctive Egyptian colors, the Perfect Discourse also displays cultural features of the Hellenistic and Roman period. Birger A. Pearson writes, "The extended apocalypse on the fate of Egypt is of special interest. It has been argued that the foreigners referred to, who established a new law, are the Christians, who have overturned the native beliefs of the Egyptians. That is unlikely, for the Perfect Discourse is attested already in the early fourth century, before the legalization of Christianity and before its establishment in the Empire by Constantine. The apocalypse shows some influence from Stoic notions of cosmic cycles. The world's destruction in a conflagration is followed by a new cycle in which the world is restored and given a new beginning.

But more to the point is the influence reflected in it of apocalypses composed in Upper Egypt in which the establishment of the city of Alexandria and Greek reule by the Macedonian Ptolemies are vigorously attacked. Those Egyptian apocalypses contain prophecies of the evils that will come to Egypt with foreign rule, and the eventual restoration of native kingship. ... Asclepius, the 'Perfect Discourse,' was probably composed in Upper Egypt in the late third century. The excerpt in Codex VI was probably translated into Coptic sometime in the fourth century." (Ancient Gnosticism, p. 289) Some Contemporary Texts Commodian (240-260 A.D.) Cyprian (246-258 A.D.) Gospel of Mani (250-274 A.D.) Teachings of Silvanus (250-300 A.D.) Excerpt from the Perfect Discourse (250-300 A.D.) Coptic Apocalypse of Elijah (250-350 A.D.) Apocalypse of Paul (250-400 A.D.) Pope Cornelius (251-253 A.D.) Novatian (251-258 A.D.) Go to the Chronological List of all Early Christian Writings Please buy the CD to support the site, view it without ads, and get bonus stuff!

Early Christian Writings is copyright © Peter Kirby <E-Mail&gt. Follow @mrpeterkirby MLA Style Kirby, Peter. "Excerpt from the Perfect Discourse (Asclepius 21-29)." Early Christian Writings. <http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/perfectdiscourse.html>. Gospels Matthew Mark Luke John Acts Letters of Paul Romans 1 Corinthians 2 Corinthians Galatians Ephesians Philippians Colossians 1 Thessalonians 2 Thessalonians 1 Timothy 2 Timothy Titus Philemon Letter to the Hebrews General Letters James 1 Peter 2 Peter 1 John 2 John 3 John Jude Revelation Gospels Gospel of Thomas Egerton Gospel Gospel of Peter Oxyrhynchus 840 Gospel of Mary Epistula Apostolorum Infancy Gospel of James Infancy Gospel of Thomas Acts of Pilate Diatessaron Gospel Fragments Oxyrhynchus 1224 Fayyum Fragment Gospel of the Egyptians Gospel of the Hebrews Gospel of the Ebionites Gospel of the Nazoreans Traditions of Matthias Dura-Europos Gospel Harmony Apostolic Acts Preaching of Peter Acts of Peter Acts of John Acts of Paul Acts of Andrew Acts of Peter and the Twelve Book of Thomas the Contender Acts of Thomas Martyrologies Martyrdom of Polycarp Fifth and Sixth Books of Esra Acts of Carpus, Papylus, and Agathonice Letter from Vienna and Lyons Passion of the Scillitan Martyrs Acts of Apollonius Acts of Perpetua and Felicitas Didache Apocalypse of Peter Didascalia Dialogues with Jesus Sophia of Jesus Christ Secret James Gospel of Mary Dialogue of the Savior Gospel of the Savior Books of Jeu Pistis Sophia Apocalypses 2nd Apocalypse of James Coptic Apocalypse of Paul 1st Apocalypse of James Coptic Apocalypse of Peter Acts Acts of Peter and the Twelve Book of Thomas the Contender Letter of Peter to Philip More Nag Hammadi Apocryphon of John Gospel of Truth Treatise on the Resurrection Gospel of Philip Trimorphic Protennoia Authoritative Teaching Discourse on the Eighth and the Ninth Melchizedek Quoted Authors Basilides Naassene Fragments Valentinus Marcion Epiphanes Ophite Diagrams Gospel of Judas More Quoted Authors Ptolemy Isidore Theodotus Heracleon Apelles Julius Cassianus Apostolic Fathers Didache Epistle of Barnabas First Clement Shepherd of Hermas Ignatius of Antioch Polycarp to the Philippians Second Clement Epistle of Mathetes to Diognetus Martyrdom of Polycarp Apologists Aristides Justin Martyr Tatian Minucius Felix Athenagoras of Athens Theophilus of Antioch Quoted Authors Papias Quadratus Aristo of Pella Claudius Apollinaris Melito of Sardis Hegesippus Dionysius of Corinth Rhodon Theophilus of Caesarea More Quoted Authors Bardesanes Maximus of Jerusalem Polycrates of Ephesus Victor I Pantaenus Anonymous Anti-Montanist Serapion of Antioch Apollonius Caius Irenaeus of Lyons Hippolytus of Rome Clement of Alexandria Tertullian Origen Pagan and Jewish Mara bar Serapion Josephus Pliny the Younger Suetonius Tacitus Fronto Lucian of Samosata Marcus Aurelius Galen Celsus Talmud Philostratus Jewish/Christian The Twelve Patriarchs Non-Pagan Sibyllines Odes of Solomon Book of Elchasai Ascension of Isaiah Hypothesized Sources Passion Narrative Sayings Gospel Q Signs Gospel Anti-Marcionite Prologues Muratorian Canon Kerygmata Petrou Inscription of Abercias